Monday, May 22, 2006

Raj Karega Khalsa!

Khalistan is not a panacea, the Sikhs will know peace when we establish Khalsa Raj!
The home of the Khalsa is the earth!
Only when all are free and the pure rule the earth shall we be free!
The Guru said 'Raj Karega Khalsa'
somebody else said 'Khalistan Zindabad.'
Don't fool yourselves or believe propaganda, only God's name is a panacea.
WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!

20 comments:

Mr Singh said...

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I agree Veerji people should only listen to what Maharaj says:

"Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Otpreka Singh said...

Guru Sahib also gave Guruship to Guru Khalsa Panth... so when sarbat Khalsa was held 18years ago and Khalistan was declared by Guru Khalsa Panth. Does that not mean we have no choice but to support Khalistan as it is hukam by Guru Sahib themselves.

Prabhu Singh said...

Otpreka Singh, that's a good point. I'm not familiar with the particular instance to which you're referring. I am familiar with the Anandpur Sahib resolution, which would have been great for all Indians, not just Sikhs (if it had been implemented).
I'm not opposed to Khalistan, I'm just a little frustrated with people going on about it all the time, when the issues are a lot bigger than fighting and dying for a piece of land. Also to think that establishment of Khalistan would cure all (i.e. a panacea). Khalistan is the end result, education and empowerment of the people of Punjab is the first step. Also we should ask the people of Punjab if they want a Khalistan because most calls for it are coming from abroad.
I was prompted to write this after seeing pictures of Gurdwaray in Canada and the UK where there are Khalistan slogans posted in the Darbar Sahib. One place has a plaque saying 'Raj Karega Khalsa' posted on one side of the Guru and on the other side 'Khalistan Jindabad.' I've never equated these two to be equals. One has a lot more meaning to me, the other is controversial and holds a lot of different meanings. For me the Gurdwara is the place to go and listen to kirtan and meditate collectively with the sangat, not to read slogans. Why not post something like 'Khalsa Zindabad' (long live the Khalsa) in the Gurdwara. These Gurdwaray are in Canada or the UK after all. What does praising a yet to be determined country have to do with the Gurdwara or the Khalsa Raj (reign of the pure)? Khalistan is a small piece of land (most people aren't even calling for the full Punjab including the Indian and Pakistani side). It is simply not equivalent to a Khalsa raj, which would be a far greater endeavor for one to devote their life.

Tajinder Kaur said...

I totally agree with you, Veer Ji. I think that Khalistan is just a political propaganda that is used to not unite but drift Sikhs apart.

I think that Pople are using Guru's name to carry out Khalistan. The way I look at it, If Guru Ji really wanted Khalistan, then he woud have created Khalistan on the same auspicious day that he created us and our identity.

I also believe that if we think that our problems could end, just by the creation of Khalistan, then we need to wake up and seriously take a good look around us and see the reality. Our problems will not end until we change our thinking. I think we need to pay more attention to ourselves as human beings and as Sikhs and make decisions for the betterment of the whole society. Khalistan is just a scapegoat.

Refering to Otpreka Singh's comment about Guru's Hukam, I ask you, didn't Guru also told us to live peacefully, to use our breaths in preaching his name, to let go of the moh maya jaal. How come we are not doing that??? Isn't that also Guru's hukum? So this basically means that we can pick out Guru's Hukum and follow whichever ones we like the best. I don't get this at all. I'm sorry for being angry but the fact is that it does anger me. People are forgeting the real meaning of Khalsa and creating Khalistan will not solve anything, it will only give more power to the ones who already abuse it to its max.

Bhool chuk maff

Prabhu Singh said...

Wow Bhen Tajinder Kaur Ji, that is a nice and thoughtful post!
I really like the point you made: "If Guru Ji really wanted Khalistan, then he woud have created Khalistan on the same auspicious day that he created us and our identity."
That is really a nice quote, and it is at the heart of the matter, which is that he gave us an identity and gave us sovereignty as Khalsa, with a Khalsa Raj, not just a country and a piece of land.
"People are forgeting the real meaning of Khalsa and creating Khalistan will not solve anything, it will only give more power to the ones who already abuse it to its max."
This statement could make some people angry, but that is really their issue, and if I say signs of anger or aggressive writing on this blog I will delete it. I agree with you that Khalistan in the current climate would do exactly as you state which is give more power to those who already abuse it, however Khalistan is not without merit, and many of the youth who are zealous (and probably prone to anger at the above statement) think of Khalistan more like a Khalsa Raj, though it is (in my opinion) a very limited idea of Khalsa Raj. As Sikhs we have to be ecumenical and see that each person has an equal opinion. I enjoyed reading your opinion Ji. Thanks for writing it.

Otpreka Singh said...

What hukam am i not following?

Tajinder Kaur, what you fail to realize is, Guru Sahib did want Khalistan, that is why in 1988 Sarbat Khalsa (Guru Khalsa Panth) declared Khalistan after years and years of innocents being killed.

I believe you are mistaken when you seperate Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Guru Khalsa Panth. Guru Sahib in Khalsa Mehima makes it clear that when the Panth comes together and makes a decision, that is a direct Hukam from Guru. So in fact Guru Sahib themselves declared Khalistan on that day 18 years ago. Now it is the duty of each and every Sikh to support Guru's hukam.

I am not talking about the political and self-gain side of Khalistan, which many people seem to not see past. I am talking about the Khalistan which shall be created with pure intentions. Every community, every country has corrupt people who use situations to their advantage.... is this suppose to discourage us? Is this suppose to side track us from the truth?

I believe the truth is that Guru Khalsa Panth has given hukam, and since I have given my head to Guru Sahib when taking amrit, I without a second thought will follow the hukam of Guru, and not let these corrupt politicians and leaders get in the way of a Hukam directly from Guru Sahib.

Otpreka Singh said...

Also when RAnjit Singh united the Sikh Kingdom, there were still uprisings attempted to go agaisnt him, there was still ppl trying to rise up and overthrow the government, there will still corrupt people trying to do things for their own advantage. This will never change.

The thing is that Guru Sahib has given us instructions on how to live a spiritual jeevan, and to educate ourselves in raj-neeti so that we can overcome these forces... So let there be no doubt that one day the Real Khalsa will rise as they did againstthe Moghuls and rid us of these fake leaders and there will be a Khalistan... In my mind there already is a Khalistan from the day it was declared from Akal Takht 18years ago by Sarbat Khalsa. Khalistan is just being occupied by wrong leaders and being oppressed, but one day this will also be sorted out with Guru's kirpa.

and Prabhu i agree with you that those who limit Khalistan to such a tiny speech are just kidding themselves.

at the end, i know many will disagree with me, but Guru Khalsa Panth has declared Khalistan, and that is enough for me.

Otpreka Singh said...

Prabhu, I beleive that there is a video available on the internet somewhere of that faithful day when Sarbat Khalsa met. It may be on Saintsoldiers.net in case you want to check it out.

Prabhu Singh said...

Thanks for your reply Bhai Ji Otpreka Singh.
From your statement: "In my mind there already is a Khalistan from the day it was declared from Akal Takht 18years ago by Sarbat Khalsa."
I feel that you view Khalistan as what I view as Khalsa Raj. In my mind Khalistan is a yet to be formed country limited by earthly boundaries, but Khalsa Raj is something that starts at home. Khalsa Raj is living as Khalsa and showing the whole world that we are a sovereign spiritual nation with no earthly boundaries.
I don't think Tajinder Bhenji was referring to you specifically as not following a hukam, but Sikhs in general, including many people who are using Khalistan to divide people.
Outside of a few communities in Canada and elsewhere many Sikhs think that Khalistan is something used for political gain and for dividing people. Then there are Sikhs who think that Khalistan will solve all problems and go on about it for ever. There has to be a middle ground. I think Tajinder Kaur Ji has probably been exposed to some of the more negative aspects of 'Khalistanis' and does not have the same reference point as you to see it as something positive for the people. If it is not presented to others as positive sans anger and political maneuvering, people will associate it wholly with the actions of the poeople presenting it negatively. Nobody wants to be in breach of the Guru Khalsa Panth, but not everbody is aware of this event in 1988, in which Khalistan was declared. We will need to know more about it, including it's authenticity to understand it and follow this hukam. For instance, if it totally authentic that five Khalsa came together to declare a Khalistan, what does it entail, was the hukam for the people of Punjab to establish Khalistan? Was the hukam that Sikhs take up arms and fight? Did the hukam involve the boundaries and meaning of Khalistan? There are many questions. Until all Sikhs are aware of this hukam and trust it, it will be a source of contention. In the mean time, we cannot go wrong by believing in the Khalsa Raj and supporting what we think is necessary to help the pains of the Sikhs in India. Personally I believe that taking up arms in India would be the last step as there are so many other ways Sikhs can force the GOI to pay attention to the Sikh needs and treat Sikhs justly. If Sikhs would simply stop fighting each other and unitedly hold their grain from the GOI, India would be on its knees until the Sikh needs were met. This would take a lot of effort, but would still be easier and more effective than trying to build an army that could face the entire Indian army.

Anonymous said...

It must be recalled and well understood that when Guru Hargobind created the Akal Takht (at the head of Darbar Sahib) and then climbed onto the throne (Takht) of the Akal Takht with the crossed swords Miri and Piri he was asserting the temporal ( political) and spiritual sovereignity of the Sikh Nation.The throne of the Akal Takht was higher than the throne of the mughul sultanate in New Delhi. Guru Hargobind Singh's act was high treason. It was a deliberate act.

The beloved master, Guru Gobind Singh, stated: "Khalsa Akal Purukh Ki Fauj, Pargatio Khalsa Parmatam Ki Mauj". The Khalsa is the army of God, The Khalsa has been created at the pleasure of God. When Guru Gobind Singh gave us a distint identity, gave us a bana and baptized us with a common name, and commanded us to bear arms (not a ceremonial kirpan) the purpose was to create a nation of saint soldiers and actualize Khalsa Raj. The Khalsa have been fighting for over 300 yers for this goal; The Shaheeds of the Khalsa Nation are pillars on The Path. How can we deny our history and state that temporal and spiritual sovereignity is not our objective. Have no doubt that the Gupt Fauj of Guru Gobind Singh is still standing.

Wahe Guruji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guruji Ki Fateh

Raj Karega Khalsa
Akhi Rahe Na Koi

Tajinder Kaur said...

Otpreka Singh Bhaji, I seem to have angered you. It was not my intent at all. I guess our views on Khalistan are very different. I do not possess the same amount of knowlegde in the subject as you do.

I only know that there is only one roop that Sache Patshah has created for us and that is Khalsa. I believe it because I have read it myself. But I have not read anywhere in the Guru Granth Sahib where Guru Ji tells us to make Khalistan, hence I do not believe in it. I'm not saying that Khalistan is bad, this is just my personal view. I truly think that creating Khalistan will not solve our problems. In order to solve them, we need to look into ourselves and make ourselves better people. If we can do that, then trust me we would not even need Khalistan. If people can live peacefully with each other and with pure hearts then we have conquered Guru Sahib's mission.

Everyone is aware of the corrupt politics and politicions there are. The matter of the fact is that when and if Khalistan is created, it will be run by people, some of them will be good and some will be bad. The actions of the bad ones will have a very negative view on us as Sikhs and our beloved Khalsa for which Khalistan stands for. I do not want that. I do not want our Khalsa to suffer anymore than it has suffered already.

Also another point, Otpreka Singh Ji, you say that the hukum for Khalistan was discovered/created 18 years ago. As to my knowledge, our Khalsa Panth and Shri Guru Granth Sahib have been around long before 1988 and Sikhs have suffered for hundreds of years. How come no one discovered this passage in the SGGS before 1988? Surely there must have been people with great knowlegde and the ability to read the SGGS before 1988. Or was it really people coming together and saying we need Khalistan? I just need that fact cleared up. I want to see and read the passage in the Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Akal Purukh himself says we need to create Khalistan.

I'm sorry if you get annoyed by me and my views of Khalistan but I'm not as knowlegable in the subject as you are and once you provide the answers to my questions, maybe my view will change.

Again Bhool Chuk maff

Prabhu Singh said...

To the anonymous who left the comment, I enjoyed reading your opinion. Thanks for sharing.
I wanted to respond to one point "How can we deny our history and state that temporal and spiritual sovereignity is not our objective. Have no doubt that the Gupt Fauj of Guru Gobind Singh is still standing."

I don't think anybody is denying temporal and spiritual sovereignty as an objective for the Khalsa Panth. Some people, like myself, believe that is what Khalsa Raj means, and Khalistan is a smaller idea that has a lot of issues (good and bad) associated with it. I don't doubt that the Fauj of Guru Gobind Singh is still standing. As long as I'm alive and standing I will be included in that, but I will never be gupt (hidden). The Khalsa stands unique and un-hidden amongst the rest. I do know of 'Khalistanis' that are gupt, and agendas that are gupt, but that's a different issue, and they should remain gupt.

Sikhi Seeker said...

"Khalistan is the end result, education and empowerment of the people of Punjab is the first step" - good call!

For me the issue of Khalistan is just as perplexed as for any moorakh of my standing. I however want to add that it can't be thought that Guruji would have declared the making of Khalistan on the saajna divas of khalsa panth. Things happen gradually. Else the almightly Waheguru would have initiated Sikhism not 500 yrs ago, but several centuries ago. It is also this issue of the "needs of each time" that boggle me about the premises in which a religion evolves and here it'd be Sikhism's evolution from Hindus who chose a new righteous path to become Guru's Sikhs and then to the variations within Sikhi and so on...

i think my rambling ain't gonna help me or anyone...so i shall stop :)

Bhu chul maaf!

Otpreka Singh said...

tajinder kaur bhanji i am not angered at all.

people have different views, no big deal. i feel strongly about my view, and you feel strongly in yours. no need for anyone to be angry

Anonymous said...

waheguru jik akhalsa wahegurujikifateh
singhs and singnis to all i can say is that people who have been through experiences they know what it was to be around and how they were treated in amritsar and punjab and how the indian goverenment played huge politics to mess with the sikh panth fully and it was even proved that there as a official order from rajiv gandhi to kill sikhs as much as they can,Yah! there was huge mess and it was nasty all that happenned.No one in india and all over punjab wanted the Khalistan and even sant giani jarnail singh ji.All he was asking was some demads for the sake of the rising of the punjab which were live telecast of harimandar sahib kirtan,the water of the punjab to stay in the punjab and not to be sold to other states and less takes and there were other thing si do not remember,he was a man of god and god knows that who are we humans to judge who was wrong and what made us angry was wrong.And by the way i loved Sant jarnail singh ji i always will.No one know the right story what happenned and why people are just judging and acting on what was writen in the news and those fake story books and the recent videos by the mark tully.
but tell me if there was any time in the history of the sikhs where the sikhs gave up and all those times they were fighting for the other people,everyone knows it.They were always fighting for others.
SO that which was planned one month ahead by the goverenment to attack the Harimandar Sahib
(on the south side of india where the army had a structure of the golden temple to do their training on so when they go attack there won't be a problem)could stop and how did the sikhs knew that they stared training too,well the army general got us everything we wanted mini cannons,machine guns and everything else they would use in the army to potect them.
The phone connections,water supplies and the power supplies were cut down before the army got in,there was no way that they were gonna reach to any one to tell them what was going to happen,Tohra,longowal gave written orders for the army to come inside the campus tell me then why did we elect these bastards for our gurudwaras bcauz all the reals ones gave their lives and liers stayed behind.
all i want to say is that there is a lots i can tell you which was truth but what's the point now.are we going to get those lives back which were sacrificed????//
I am a khalsa and i seek for the peace in the whole world and may it never happens to any religious place in the whole world.
So everyone please lets not get angry,judgy and all on each other and lets pray for the sarbat da bhala,
lets's not questioned that if guru ji wanted the khals araj he would have done it,well for that let me remind you all that there was one time when th Guru's army was surounded and there was no other choice than to leave,there was no food but guru gobind singh ji asked the sikhs to stay back for one week he will give them the rule of the whole world remember when they had to seperate on the "sarsa river"but te sikhs didn't wanted to stay cauz they were starwing,well there you go this was the time when guru wanted the sikhs to rule but not in a way what' shappenning now.
sarbat da bhala

Bhul chuk di maffi

Prabhu Singh said...

Thank you for your comments. I wanted to point out though that you have a few inaccuracies and or unconfirmed statements in your post.
The first one is that the attack was planned a month in advance in the south of India. From what I've read, it was being planned a year in advance in the hills of Jammu and Kashmir, with the army running drills on a full scale mock-up of the Harimandir Sahib.
Also I have never heard of a written order from Tohra or Longowal. I don't know too much about either, but I seriously doubt that Tohra would ever do such a thing. He was responsible for tearing down the Akal Takht after the Indian government used soldiers and others to rebuild it to try and mask their atrocities. He had it torn down and built by sevadars. That was an honorable thing, and he did other good things for the panth as well (despite whatever mistakes he made).
" lets's not questioned that if guru ji wanted the khalsa raj he would have done it"
I don't think any one is questioning that. I believe that Guru Gobind Singh did create the Khalsa Raj, when he created the Khalsa. Can you imagine as a Khalsa ever bowing to anybody but your Guru? We bow only to God/Guru and therefore we, as Khalsa, have our Raj. The point was, did Guru Gobind Singh say to establish 'Khalistan?' He didn't, he gave us the whole world and established 'Khalsa Raj.' Something way higher and way better than what many people are devoting their lives to in fighting for some kind of Khalistan.

Mr Singh said...

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said:

"Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain"

which literally means that sovereignty is a MUST in order for a religion to survive; otherwise religion perishes.

Prabhu Singh said...

I have deleted one post in this thread because it presents opinions which are not backed up with evidence. There is a lot of hearsay and propaganda on this issue. Everybody thinks they're right, but nobody has all the facts. My only point is Khalistan is not equivalent to Khalsa Raj and focusing on it is setting our sights low. Khalistan or something similar (involving political and territorial sovereignty) is a natural by-product of people living as true Khalsay with spiritual sovereignty.

Anonymous said...

why? why did you deleted that post because you are afraid to hear the truth aren't you? man it's easy to tell people wrong but when it just came on you people yu didn't like it?have guts to listen about you people do you have any ?
hey dodn't woryy singh i am not trying to proove anyone wrong or write ihad just mentioned the truth to you in my previous if you know which one i am talking about?

Prabhu Singh said...

Who is 'you people?'
I think of the whole human race as one, that is the instruction of Guru Gobind Singh.
I'm not afraid to hear the truth. Why should I be? Khalsa fears nothing and makes none fear. What you wrote was not the truth and if you think you have more 'secret' sources or have access to more 'truth' than me, you may be kidding yourself. The previous post had too many distortions and lies. I'm not saying you're a liar, I'm just saying somebody lied to you.
You may not remember what you wrote, but your words impugned a whole community and several individuals. You wrote false things about people giving money to other people. I can only delete a post I can't delete part of it. I would delete the false information, but I had to delete it all.
I'm sorry if you feel offended. I could email you and discuss with you all the points which I know to be false. I'm not sure who's giving you information, but there are too many distortions. This discussion will be closed. If you would like to discuss this further you can email me.
I would like to make the point one more time: I'm not sure who you're referring to as 'YOU PEOPLE,' but I cannot be grouped with anyone but the Khalsa, and I am not accountable for anyone but myself. Sat Siri Akal.
Raj Karega Khalsa!